Good! So you agree that, "to some extent," women and minorities are still oppressed, and you benefit directly from that oppression, yes?
Yes, I agree that "to some extent" women and minorities are still oppressed.
No, I do not agree that I "benefit directly from that oppression." That formulation implies a limited social pie which cannot grow or have its rate of growth affected under any circumstances. The relevance of this here is that to the degree that there is still irrational prejudice against any groups in society, this shrinks the rate of growth. I would benefit the most from a society in which the minimum possible irrational prejudice existed.
Though not always to the benefit of white males any more: some of it directly benefits particular nonwhite groups, or women.
Please don't bring up affirmative action; it really is not very important and I don't feel like debating it.
"Affirmative action" is highly relevant to the issue, since it shows that whites and males can suffer racial and sexual oppression, rather than being barred from such oppression by their magic "privileges." Furthermore, not all of the direct victims of "affirmative action" are white or male. To wit:
I am very personally aware of the effects of such quotas because my mother suffered from such a quota. Not because she was white or female -- because she was Jewish -- in the 1940's, Columbia University practiced "affirmative action" against Jews. Because Jews tended to have higher than average marks, colleges in that day set maximum quotas of Jewish students they would accept. Today, we directly oppress East Asians in the exact same manner, despite the fact that they are "persons of color" in the (absurd) PC parlance.
EDIT: When I say affirmative action is "not very important," I mean that it in no way constitutes either racism or oppression of anyone and so I don't see a need to argue about it in the context of this conversation.
Whites, East Asians and males are apparently not "anyone" in this context. Or do they deserve to be selected against because of the sins of their ancestors? Btw, of what did these consist in the case of the East Asians against whom we today select? Are we getting revenge for Pearl Harbor? The Korean War? The Mongol invasion of Europe? Inquiring minds want to know ...
Not as much as I don't feel like debating Trayvon Martin's murder, but still.
You directly asked me a question about the shooting of Trayvon Martin, otherwise I would have said nothing about it as it was not very relevant to the issue at hand.
I am not suggesting legal reparations and have never suggested legal reparations. I am suggesting that we actively try to enact social and cultural change. One part of that--a small part perhaps, but still a part--is to put a stop to our current situation where men get to say whatever they want, while if women step out of line they get volleys of sexist insults and rape threats hurled at them.
Women being incapable of insulting men right back because what, the Privilege Police will come arrest them for Violation of Male Privilege? (Incidentally, if the host cares to let my Woman of Color friend on this post, you'll probably be shocked on this topic) :)
"Rape threats" are not only immoral and illogical but actually illegal, which suggests several obvious remedies.
You are suggesting that the solution to the above situation is for women to grow thicker skin. I am suggesting that the solution is to get men to stop hurling sexist insults and rape threats.
I'm suggesting a solution which is actually within the power of each individual woman to achieve and does not require generations of social change. In other words, a practical solution, while your solution essentially allows you to feel moral while it does nothing to help the women involved -- since even if you are extra special super duper nice to every mammalian life form with an "XX" sex chromosome pair, the female will still eventually encounter some male who is not nice at all -- and be utterly unprepared to fight back.
no subject
Yes, I agree that "to some extent" women and minorities are still oppressed.
No, I do not agree that I "benefit directly from that oppression." That formulation implies a limited social pie which cannot grow or have its rate of growth affected under any circumstances. The relevance of this here is that to the degree that there is still irrational prejudice against any groups in society, this shrinks the rate of growth. I would benefit the most from a society in which the minimum possible irrational prejudice existed.
Though not always to the benefit of white males any more: some of it directly benefits particular nonwhite groups, or women.
Please don't bring up affirmative action; it really is not very important and I don't feel like debating it.
"Affirmative action" is highly relevant to the issue, since it shows that whites and males can suffer racial and sexual oppression, rather than being barred from such oppression by their magic "privileges." Furthermore, not all of the direct victims of "affirmative action" are white or male. To wit:
I am very personally aware of the effects of such quotas because my mother suffered from such a quota. Not because she was white or female -- because she was Jewish -- in the 1940's, Columbia University practiced "affirmative action" against Jews. Because Jews tended to have higher than average marks, colleges in that day set maximum quotas of Jewish students they would accept. Today, we directly oppress East Asians in the exact same manner, despite the fact that they are "persons of color" in the (absurd) PC parlance.
EDIT: When I say affirmative action is "not very important," I mean that it in no way constitutes either racism or oppression of anyone and so I don't see a need to argue about it in the context of this conversation.
Whites, East Asians and males are apparently not "anyone" in this context. Or do they deserve to be selected against because of the sins of their ancestors? Btw, of what did these consist in the case of the East Asians against whom we today select? Are we getting revenge for Pearl Harbor? The Korean War? The Mongol invasion of Europe? Inquiring minds want to know ...
Not as much as I don't feel like debating Trayvon Martin's murder, but still.
You directly asked me a question about the shooting of Trayvon Martin, otherwise I would have said nothing about it as it was not very relevant to the issue at hand.
I am not suggesting legal reparations and have never suggested legal reparations. I am suggesting that we actively try to enact social and cultural change. One part of that--a small part perhaps, but still a part--is to put a stop to our current situation where men get to say whatever they want, while if women step out of line they get volleys of sexist insults and rape threats hurled at them.
Women being incapable of insulting men right back because what, the Privilege Police will come arrest them for Violation of Male Privilege? (Incidentally, if the host cares to let my Woman of Color friend on this post, you'll probably be shocked on this topic) :)
"Rape threats" are not only immoral and illogical but actually illegal, which suggests several obvious remedies.
You are suggesting that the solution to the above situation is for women to grow thicker skin. I am suggesting that the solution is to get men to stop hurling sexist insults and rape threats.
I'm suggesting a solution which is actually within the power of each individual woman to achieve and does not require generations of social change. In other words, a practical solution, while your solution essentially allows you to feel moral while it does nothing to help the women involved -- since even if you are extra special super duper nice to every mammalian life form with an "XX" sex chromosome pair, the female will still eventually encounter some male who is not nice at all -- and be utterly unprepared to fight back.