I'd go easier on poor Torvald, though I wouldn't sleep with him.
He grew up in a world where he thought gays were perverts and monsters. This is the first time he's had to deal with them, knowingly, as people and must now deal with his own....superstitions. The idea that you punch someone in such a situation may make a point, but it also isn't right.
Alex was good to give him a wake up call so he can maybe realize everything he was taught isn't always so. If he learns the lesson in the next few days or months is his true test of character.
And our own worlds has just as many predjudices that are 'okay', rationalized and justified so I'm not sure you or I can say we're any better than Torvald.
Like the fact that Alex wasn't afraid to loose her virginity.
Stars were quite otherworldly and disinterested. Alex's reaction is quite like a person who has their flaws pointed out to them but can't wrap their brain around their own flaw, and so very human. It is in fact, very much like Torvald.
That head blindness seems to be very much the theme of the chapter, including the possibility that Alex is missing Anna's interest.
my comment wasn't so much directed at Torvald (I do get that he is young and has had certain prejudiced views presented to him as facts growing up. Though you know, not being able to question that when it comes to your BEST FRIEND...) so much as Alex being awesome....
like, a lot of people aren't necessarily bigoted/homophobic/racist/sexist etc, and yet, when you hear someone say something questionable...especially when it is someone you like/have feelings for...sometimes, its easier to just let it 'slide', decide its not worth it to get into it. but the fact that she was clearly, umabigously sending the message of NO, THAT IS NOT AN OK THING TO SAY...lol, maybe i'm projecting because I'm never that assertive with people, but yeah, IMO she is badass. And obviously could have handled it better, but yeah, they are all young, and the whole Max thing, obviously...
Actually, I don't think punching Torvald in the face was particularly admirable, though I'm glad you liked the scene.
I may write more on this later, as the whole scene is something I (over)thought a lot. I'm just not sure if I should post author's notes on my own story before it's done.
oh, well yeah physical violence is rarely *really* admirable but...as i said, my love of this scene is likely me projecting since i have a tendency to just say/do nothing/avoid confrontation even when people say nonsense that really bothers me
Well, it might not be admirable, but it is completely understandable. Alex has been through being called a mudblood for years, through no fault of her own, only because of her parentage. She had also gotten quite close to Max while he was alive, and his death comes with many painful memories for her. Torvald being the guy she chose to sleep with, whether she loves him or not, means she had some expectations of him. So its completely understandable why Alex would punch him.
Oh, I do think it's understandable. (I wrote her, after all!) Just like I understand Torvald's attitude. I would just hate for people to think that this was a Very Special Chapter of Alexandra Quick where Alex punching another kid in the face for making homophobic comments was meant to be a Crowning Moment of Awesome. It was more like a crowning moment of Alexandra realizing that she still has an open wound where Max is concerned.
Let's be clear: Alexandra is not a homophobe (obviously), and even before she found out about Max, if you'd asked her, she'd have said she thinks there's nothing wrong with being gay. But it's not like she's hanging out on LJ communities learning how to be a good ally and taking up the cause of LGBT rights.
So, her violent response to Torvald was a lot more personal than it was political: Torvald was calling her brother a sick freak.
Now, as her last conversation with him demonstrated, she's made the connection and begun to generalize that.
Haha, I didn't know you agonized about it so much. I didn't really give it a second thought myself. I mean, if my friend or girlfriend started spouting homophobic crap...well, I probably wouldn't punch them, but it would turn into a shouting match really quickly (and the relationship would likely end soon afterward). Saying something stupid is one thing, and bigotry is something very different.
Well, I didn't agonize over it that much, but I really didn't want people thinking I only wrote the scene to show Alexandra Taking a Stand Against Homophobia.
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Seriously, Alex is awesome. I loved how that played out. And poor Stuart, to have his 'best friend' react like that :[
Stars meeting quite fascinating. Lots of food for thought. I am especially intruiged by Abraham's role in all this.
But seriously, these chapters totally make my mondays and fridays so much better :]
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He grew up in a world where he thought gays were perverts and monsters. This is the first time he's had to deal with them, knowingly, as people and must now deal with his own....superstitions. The idea that you punch someone in such a situation may make a point, but it also isn't right.
Alex was good to give him a wake up call so he can maybe realize everything he was taught isn't always so. If he learns the lesson in the next few days or months is his true test of character.
And our own worlds has just as many predjudices that are 'okay', rationalized and justified so I'm not sure you or I can say we're any better than Torvald.
Like the fact that Alex wasn't afraid to loose her virginity.
Stars were quite otherworldly and disinterested. Alex's reaction is quite like a person who has their flaws pointed out to them but can't wrap their brain around their own flaw, and so very human. It is in fact, very much like Torvald.
That head blindness seems to be very much the theme of the chapter, including the possibility that Alex is missing Anna's interest.
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like, a lot of people aren't necessarily bigoted/homophobic/racist/sexist etc, and yet, when you hear someone say something questionable...especially when it is someone you like/have feelings for...sometimes, its easier to just let it 'slide', decide its not worth it to get into it. but the fact that she was clearly, umabigously sending the message of NO, THAT IS NOT AN OK THING TO SAY...lol, maybe i'm projecting because I'm never that assertive with people, but yeah, IMO she is badass. And obviously could have handled it better, but yeah, they are all young, and the whole Max thing, obviously...
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And you're right. I wish I was that brave.
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I may write more on this later, as the whole scene is something I (over)thought a lot. I'm just not sure if I should post author's notes on my own story before it's done.
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In which the author rambles a bit
Let's be clear: Alexandra is not a homophobe (obviously), and even before she found out about Max, if you'd asked her, she'd have said she thinks there's nothing wrong with being gay. But it's not like she's hanging out on LJ communities learning how to be a good ally and taking up the cause of LGBT rights.
So, her violent response to Torvald was a lot more personal than it was political: Torvald was calling her brother a sick freak.
Now, as her last conversation with him demonstrated, she's made the connection and begun to generalize that.
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