*sigh* I assume you do not belong to one of the "victimized groups" we're talking about.
I was born and raised Jewish. So yet, I do belong to a group which was quite severely victimized: and is being victimized again east of the Atlantic. Though I realize that we're pointedly excluded from the list of "victim groups" currently popular among the Politically Correct.
And I was treated with extra suspicion, and even the threat of violence, in part because I "looked Jewish." Happened in New York City in the early 1980's. So it's not even purely historical or theoretical from my POV.
You know what? I don't let it dominate my life, and I don't imagine that I get any special rights or consideration for it. Nor do I hold that I am required to extend any special rights or consideration to anyone else based on their group identity -- only the rights and consdieration I extend to everyone, REGARDLESS of group identity.
What you're saying is that people who belong to "victimized groups" should all have to overcome hundreds of years of oppression, while people who do not belong to such groups do not have to do this.
Yes. Though, frankly, anyone who has personally suffered "hundreds of years of oppression" is advantaged, rather than disadvantaged -- they have enjoyed an incredibly long life. And I don't think we should repress the Long families -- they might just wind up leaving Earth on a starship if we do that.
Now, is this fair? Nope. But there is literally no way to make this fair, as both the oppressors and oppressed are usually dead, often long dead, in this sort of situation.
Ancient historical unfairnessess are inameliorable. All the people who are alive now can do is overcome their lingering consequences as best they can, and this means learning to be tough and determined, not learning to be whiny and demanding, because the former route leads to personal pride; the latter route leads to eternal dependence on Big Daddy State Justice.
In other words, you are saying that the responsibility for overcoming a long history of oppression lies with the oppressed groups themselves.
Yep.
This is very much not okay.
I'm sorry if this reality bothers you. Would you like to board the crosstime machine and emigrate to some more congenial reality, possibly ones with different human natures?
The responsibility lies with the oppressors.
That's nice. Since I'm not one of the "oppressors", save by tautological claim, and indeed in most cases the actual oppressors are either long-dead or very old by now, that diffuses the responsibility very nicely.
Consider your own life, though. How far have you ever gotten in achieving any end by claiming that someone else is responsible for your own situation? And how far, instead, have you gotten when you took responsiblity for your own life and began working to improve it -- not by petitioning other people for help, but by working hard and improving yourself?
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Victims
Date: 2012-04-10 01:11 am (UTC)I was born and raised Jewish. So yet, I do belong to a group which was quite severely victimized: and is being victimized again east of the Atlantic. Though I realize that we're pointedly excluded from the list of "victim groups" currently popular among the Politically Correct.
And I was treated with extra suspicion, and even the threat of violence, in part because I "looked Jewish." Happened in New York City in the early 1980's. So it's not even purely historical or theoretical from my POV.
You know what? I don't let it dominate my life, and I don't imagine that I get any special rights or consideration for it. Nor do I hold that I am required to extend any special rights or consideration to anyone else based on their group identity -- only the rights and consdieration I extend to everyone, REGARDLESS of group identity.
What you're saying is that people who belong to "victimized groups" should all have to overcome hundreds of years of oppression, while people who do not belong to such groups do not have to do this.
Yes. Though, frankly, anyone who has personally suffered "hundreds of years of oppression" is advantaged, rather than disadvantaged -- they have enjoyed an incredibly long life. And I don't think we should repress the Long families -- they might just wind up leaving Earth on a starship if we do that.
Now, is this fair? Nope. But there is literally no way to make this fair, as both the oppressors and oppressed are usually dead, often long dead, in this sort of situation.
Ancient historical unfairnessess are inameliorable. All the people who are alive now can do is overcome their lingering consequences as best they can, and this means learning to be tough and determined, not learning to be whiny and demanding, because the former route leads to personal pride; the latter route leads to eternal dependence on Big Daddy State Justice.
In other words, you are saying that the responsibility for overcoming a long history of oppression lies with the oppressed groups themselves.
Yep.
This is very much not okay.
I'm sorry if this reality bothers you. Would you like to board the crosstime machine and emigrate to some more congenial reality, possibly ones with different human natures?
The responsibility lies with the oppressors.
That's nice. Since I'm not one of the "oppressors", save by tautological claim, and indeed in most cases the actual oppressors are either long-dead or very old by now, that diffuses the responsibility very nicely.
Consider your own life, though. How far have you ever gotten in achieving any end by claiming that someone else is responsible for your own situation? And how far, instead, have you gotten when you took responsiblity for your own life and began working to improve it -- not by petitioning other people for help, but by working hard and improving yourself?