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inverarityI used to be incredibly argumentative. (I know, big shock, right?) I spent more time than I want to think about arguing on message boards, getting into flamewars with people who were just so unspeakably jaw-droppingly blood-boilingly unbearably fucking stupid that surely the entire universe would collapse into a singularity if I did not disabuse of them of their utter and complete wrongbadness.
I just skimmed a certain HP message board for the first time in months, and.... yeah, I'm glad I've outgrown that. (Okay, I'll still get into it sometimes with people, but for the most part, I've learned to walk away from poo-flinging chimps, or better yet, not engage at all.)
This, btw, is why I don't post a lot about my politics here. 'Cause I can easily go off on a tear about my godless heathen liberal politics, but then it becomes unfun when people who share a common love of fandom are suddenly ripping into each other over abortion or God or whether Obama wants to make you gay marry a Muslim anchor baby. (Yes, I totally ripped that last line off from John Scalzi, who I want to be when I grow up.)
So, now and then I feel like doing the "blogging" thing where I actually talk about, you know, real stuff, and then I think better of it, because that way lies self-immolation.
Anyway, here is a revised Thorn Family Tree (with some noteworthy additions) as a reward for suffering through the above rambling. Note that it is still subject to future revisions...
I just skimmed a certain HP message board for the first time in months, and.... yeah, I'm glad I've outgrown that. (Okay, I'll still get into it sometimes with people, but for the most part, I've learned to walk away from poo-flinging chimps, or better yet, not engage at all.)
This, btw, is why I don't post a lot about my politics here. 'Cause I can easily go off on a tear about my godless heathen liberal politics, but then it becomes unfun when people who share a common love of fandom are suddenly ripping into each other over abortion or God or whether Obama wants to make you gay marry a Muslim anchor baby. (Yes, I totally ripped that last line off from John Scalzi, who I want to be when I grow up.)
So, now and then I feel like doing the "blogging" thing where I actually talk about, you know, real stuff, and then I think better of it, because that way lies self-immolation.
Anyway, here is a revised Thorn Family Tree (with some noteworthy additions) as a reward for suffering through the above rambling. Note that it is still subject to future revisions...
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no subject
Date: 2010-09-18 06:38 pm (UTC)Haha, best paragraph ever. It was a hockey forum for me, though. :-\
Darla
Date: 2010-09-18 08:04 pm (UTC)--Geneva
Re: Darla
Date: 2010-09-19 04:12 pm (UTC)Rhemus said
Date: 2010-09-18 09:42 pm (UTC)Agreed. I am guessing that your political doctrine is wishy-washy liberal. There are other websites where I can rant that Anarchism is better doctrine than Liberalism.
On this site, it is better that we squee about the good bit of AQ and HhD and whinge about the bad bits.
And one of the bad bits of AQ is that I cant read the family tree. It is all in teeny weeny typeface. When I click the magnifying glass Icon, then it is readable for 0.2 seconds and then reverts to teeny weeny.
Darla is Alex's cousin. All magical clans are cousins.
Politix of Real World are off topic. Politix of AQ world are on topic. So far we have seen Abraham kill hundreds of innocents. Abe is Evil.
Re: Rhemus said
Date: 2010-09-18 09:51 pm (UTC)Dude, how long have you been on the Internet? Do you not know how to right-click and "View Image"?
Re: Rhemus said
Date: 2010-09-19 09:52 pm (UTC)~DarkSov~
Abraham Thorn
Date: 2010-09-19 03:47 am (UTC)He calls ahead to warn them, so(unless he made that up, in which case...:)
-thegardenofpotter
Rhemus said
Date: 2010-09-19 02:14 pm (UTC)The borders seem to indicate blood status. Blue = Pure, Red = Half, Grey = Human. In that case Darla had a Human grand-mother and according to the usual system, she would have been Half-Blood and inelligible for sacrifice. So either this is a Flint or a plot point that will come up later, or you changed the blood status system because the grandparent rule is only fanon anyway.
Abraham Thorn the great humanitarian because before he killed 200 people, he issued a warning??? Likewise, Riddle warned Lily to shut up so he could kill Harry in peace. We have TWO candidates for Nobel Peace Prize. (Sarcasm)
Blood Status and Body Counts
Date: 2010-09-19 04:08 pm (UTC)Darla actually made a point of explaining the blood status thing. According to the official Confederation Census, she's a pure-blood. Some traditionalists might think otherwise.
Abraham Thorn's morality is certainly debatable. But where, precisely, did you get the figure of 200 dead?
Rhemus
Date: 2010-09-19 09:00 pm (UTC)I guessed it as a reasonable number for a train crash, on April 18th in Fiction Alley review of AQATDR chap 14. Likewise, June 18th, FA review of chap 29, I said "Confederation murders one child every 7 years. Abraham murders dozens of people each month. Both sides are evil, but Abe is eviller." And you replied "Hmm, is evil measured by body count?"
The text does not specify the numbers of Abe's victims, all we CAN do is guess. You questioned that my moral system is too simplistic, but you never denied that my guess at the body count is reasonable from the information provided. Fair enough, there might be some special spoiler information that we wont know until the time is right.
For now, I will guess that the body count is 200ish from the train crash and 100ish from his other raids, until I have further information.
"Hmm, is evil measured by body count?"
It is a good start, but there are exceptions. Geneva Convention defines that killing enemy soldiers is morally neutral whereas killing civilians and POWs is evil. Abe has killed 300 civilians and 3 Aurors = enemy soldiers.
Judge Dredd has a high body count, but in the context of the Story, those perps deserved to die and killing them was Righteous. Usually, Dredd stories are well written and I agree that those perps deserved to die.
"Atlas Shrugged" by Ayn Rand was the "Twilight" of its day. There was a scene with a train crash and Rand lists the sins of each and every passenger to assert that they deserved death. She would say that wouldn't she?
Re: Rhemus
Date: 2010-09-20 01:48 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 09:45 pm (UTC)I think the internet taught me a lot about the when and hows to discuss hot issues with people. After so many years in the fandom, and specially after the Half Blood Prince shipwars and the Delusional Debacle, I somehow learned when it's wise to change the subject and when to simply keep your mouth shut and roll your eyes.
Thanks for the family tree, I absolutely LOVE this sort of stuff.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 09:59 pm (UTC)Really, I believe that the AQ universe is a good representation of our world, and how all these people justify their actions and beliefs as being good, or for the greater good, or at the very least altruistically good. These people are so involved in the game between themselves that they fail to see the effects they have in the real world, and they cannot see the injustices their beliefs and policies and actions heap on the undeserved. There's a lesson to be learned here.
~DarkSov~
no subject
Date: 2010-09-19 11:33 pm (UTC)Close, but no cigar and it is probably a debate that we should discuss on a different site.
Confed = evil U.S.A. government. Thornistas = even eviller Al Qaeda. So far, the analogy holds.
The difference between AQ and Real World is that the Thornistas did it of their own accord. Soviets invaded Afghanistan and imposed literacy and equality for women. USA government paid to set up Al Qaeda and then later on Osama bin Laden bit the hand that fed him.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 12:54 am (UTC)~DarkSov~
no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 01:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 03:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 01:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 03:05 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-20 02:38 am (UTC)Trying to convince someone that something they hold dear is incorrect is not possible; not with logic, not with sincerity and not with flame throwers.
And I am sure there will be those that disagree with what I have said...
Also looking forward to book four :-)
Changing viewpoints
Date: 2010-09-20 10:34 pm (UTC)Changing viewpoints and opinions is certainly possible, though difficult.
Just saying... :)
Ah, Yes
Date: 2010-09-21 08:59 am (UTC)Incidentally, after a couple-months' delay, I finally wrote an epic-length review for Deathly Regiment. If you want to respond to any part of it on this blog, you can reply to this post.
Hope the writing's going well. Looking forward to Book 4, especially to Native American wizards.
-TealTerror
no subject
Date: 2010-09-21 09:47 am (UTC)Sarcasm faculty, eh?
Date: 2010-09-21 05:37 pm (UTC)Let me just say two things. First of all, it is perfectly possible to convince someone else through debate. It has personally happened to me several times (as both the convincer and the convincee). And it doesn't necessarily take any kind of high opinion of oneself, only of one's arguments.
Second, if you only interact with people whose values match your own, you'll live a pretty lonely life. And yeah, I know that's not what you said, but it's really only a hop, skip, and jump away.
Re: Sarcasm faculty, eh?
Date: 2010-09-21 05:37 pm (UTC)Re: Sarcasm faculty, eh?
Date: 2010-09-22 08:13 pm (UTC)irony
Date: 2010-09-22 01:48 am (UTC)-so this is real life...
Re: irony
Date: 2010-09-22 03:32 am (UTC)-TealTerror