As for point six, you have to remember that Abraham Thorn is notoriously vindictive where his children are concerned. Larry Albo has given his daughter a lot of grief, and to have him dance with her was a devilishly imaginative feat of revenge. Who's ever going to believe him afterward? Personally, I loved it.
Maybe so (I agree that the choice of Larry was likely not coincidental), but an adolescent feud in no way justifies having an Imperius placed on you. It's not an exaggeration to say that being Imperiused is worse than being enslaved; there's a reason it's an Unforgivable.
Now, Larry will probably just say he was messing with her and nobody will really care. It won't have a disastrous effect on his life, in any event. But Imperiusing a teenager is still awfully disturbing, IMO.
Abraham Thorn has just been guilty of the death of a whole train-full of people. He may claim that it was the Government's fault for not taking his warning seriously (a chickenshit piece of evasion of responsibility that the IRA used to indulge), but he closed the tunnel and condemned those people to death. Frankly, given that, I am surprised you should find his imperiusing one teen-ager so disturbing. It is in character and less than I would have expected from him.
Three points: A) Crimes committed on-stage are always worse than crimes committed off-stage. So while my being more disturbed by this scene than the Roanoke Underhill crash might be a reflection of problems in human moral reasoning, it shouldn't be surprising. B) Abraham Thorn is almost a textbook Well-Intentioned Extremist. The train crash was basically explained away, in his mind, as a necessary sacrifice to reform the Confederacy. Cold-hearted, certainly, but not completely clear-cut evil. On the other hand, I'm sure there were plenty of ways to notify Alex about the time and place of their meeting, but he went straight for the Imperius. That IS evil, no two bones about it. C) I never said or implied that I found the Imperius out-of-character for him, or contrary to my expectations. I merely said it was evil and disturbing, and a REMINDER that Abraham isn't anything close to a good guy. Our argument got started because I got the impression that you don't think it was a very big deal. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize.
I think we agree exactly on your point B, or almost exactly. I would say that while Thorn is very good at justifying himself, things like the cursing of Larry Albo (whether it was an Imperio or something else, it was at least a public humiliation of the harshest kind) bring out his real quality. Actually, when it comes to that, his manipulation and use of his too-loyal sixteen-year-old son is even worse. It reminds me of what a really bad parent will do during a custody case, and it involves, not just mechanical manipulation from outside, but going there and making use of a boy's emotions and ill-judged loyalty to send him to his death for a purely physical advantage - manipulating him in person. What Thorn did to Maximilian, he did it face to face, and we have to remember that with all his honour and courage, Max was still only sixteen.
As for the rest, I have a suspicion that my problem may lie with JKR's own categories. It has always bothered me a bit that she should place so much emphasis on curses that, after all, only affect individuals, in the context of a society where people can be corrupted by the million. But I think we had better leave it there, because that would open a whole new can of worms.
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branchandroot
Re: Chapter 20 Review
Date: 2010-05-07 02:45 pm (UTC)Re: Chapter 20 Review
Date: 2010-05-07 11:17 pm (UTC)Now, Larry will probably just say he was messing with her and nobody will really care. It won't have a disastrous effect on his life, in any event. But Imperiusing a teenager is still awfully disturbing, IMO.
Re: Chapter 20 Review
Date: 2010-05-07 11:47 pm (UTC)Re: Chapter 20 Review
Date: 2010-05-08 05:09 am (UTC)A) Crimes committed on-stage are always worse than crimes committed off-stage. So while my being more disturbed by this scene than the Roanoke Underhill crash might be a reflection of problems in human moral reasoning, it shouldn't be surprising.
B) Abraham Thorn is almost a textbook Well-Intentioned Extremist. The train crash was basically explained away, in his mind, as a necessary sacrifice to reform the Confederacy. Cold-hearted, certainly, but not completely clear-cut evil.
On the other hand, I'm sure there were plenty of ways to notify Alex about the time and place of their meeting, but he went straight for the Imperius. That IS evil, no two bones about it.
C) I never said or implied that I found the Imperius out-of-character for him, or contrary to my expectations. I merely said it was evil and disturbing, and a REMINDER that Abraham isn't anything close to a good guy. Our argument got started because I got the impression that you don't think it was a very big deal. If I'm wrong about that, I apologize.
Re: Chapter 20 Review
Date: 2010-05-08 05:22 am (UTC)As for the rest, I have a suspicion that my problem may lie with JKR's own categories. It has always bothered me a bit that she should place so much emphasis on curses that, after all, only affect individuals, in the context of a society where people can be corrupted by the million. But I think we had better leave it there, because that would open a whole new can of worms.